I know I’m getting off topic, but Mesmer was such a cool concept in general. Having a CC class focused on mindgames was a stroke of genius, because playing a mental game is a lot more fun than say, WoW style mezzers that take control away from the character. I enjoyed the fact that, aside from Elementalist knocking, hard CC also came at a cost to the mezzer too, in addition to typically being more tactical and of a short duration.

That said some people hate the whole “prison of the mind” thing too. I know zoners are typically pretty reviled in fighting games.

GW1 is actually a really good example in another way: I think its Domination Mesmer was a fantastic offensive spin on the idea of a mezzer a la EQ’s Enchanters. In general the idea of an offensive curse-slinger that CCs vulns enemies is where I’ve been gravitating more and more in Warframe since the big armour strip changes in September of last year.

On the happy brain juice, I think this is something people miss. I know my Sevagoth and Nyx are easily able to get top kills unless there’s a dedicated murder machine like Gyre or Mesa. But I think I have a lot of bias due to having every weapon and almost all mods available to me, so I can easily configure a loadout to be highly performant. The gear-reliance is probably another factor deterring people from playing debuff frames, because it’s not immediately obvious how much offensive potential they have. Even for me it took a while before the murder gremlin hiding in my brain was like, “wait, doesn’t Nyx have a huge offensive potential?”

With the first point, I want to clarify, most “supports” (by my understanding of the term) actually have some kind of debuff that increases their damage. For example Nyx has access to Pacifying Bolts which is functionally a one-handed Tharros Strike, even on SP spawn densities. Enemies with no armour are functionally at a 20x or higher damage multiplier, albeit less assuming you’re running a Corrosive weapon and not building Viral around fullstrip. Frost has access to fullstrip and then some combination of a personal CC/CD buff, or a party-wide Viral amp through Freeze Force. Banshee has Sonic Fracture and optionally Sonar for the funnies or on Demos, Eximus and Acolytes.

The kind of support frame I was focusing on has good personal damage tools, but the support comes from the fact that these tools benefit the whole party as well.

Trinity is a bit of an outlier in that she’s all in on survivability, especially with something like Vampire Leech/Nourish builds which have the potential to shieldgate everyone constantly. Admittedly I think she and Wisp are what people think of a “support” as, and not say debuffers like Frost, Caliban, Sevagoth etc.

Edit:

That said, this is a great answer. It’s very insightful as to where my own personal biases were formed: the kind of content I do, which is primarily long solo runs, 5+ rotations of endless and Duviri, and usually with Alliance members and friends. In these situations, debuffer CCs shine. I do think someone like Nyx is very misunderstood for linear speed missions with pubbies though, as Pacifying Bolts is a very powerful damage booster when you’re moving quickly.

This is a good insight, but I’d say the big appeal for a “support” character in a game where everyone has the same guns and weapons: if you’re making everyone else stronger, you’re making yourself stronger too.

Yeah, he’s close to the end of the Star Chart due to needing Sedna unlocked, but realistically you’ll have a few days to a week before you’re on to Arbitrations and the Adaptation farm. Also a great frame for dipping your toes into SP due to his damage buffing ability.

There’s a really long interval between New War and being able to get Adaptation, and it also means you can forego it completely for most content. I run Condemn Cali and I gotta say, 50% DR is really nice with a source of shield battery, especially on a frame I’m running Rolling Guard on.

It took like two years for Sevagoth to get an absolutely insane augment, and to be fair he really needed a way to amp his mediocre KPM. I know space man will have his day eventually.

Thing about Cali though is I don’t think he needs the help as much, he already has one of the strongest damage buff kits in the game due to being able to lay multiple shield/armour strips on top of a second-line DV buff. In addition, he has the potential for really good survivability with assistance from a shield gen source, be it Condemn, Pillage, or Styanax.

I think Cali just runs into the community’s general disdain for CC/buff frames. I think Octavia is the only member of the archetype that actually has a good reputation and sees relatively high usage. Thing is though, we have Circuit Defense. He and his design relatives are more relevant than ever.